Every now and then I get a question about whether and when it is OK for an employer to ask a veteran about his/her military service and the type of discharge he/she received. This blog will focus on EMPLOYING a veteran (as opposed to re-employing a National Guard or Reserve member after a period of military leave; the standards are slightly different.)
In a nutshell:
- You CAN ask someone whether they have served in the US military
- You CAN ask for the dates of their employment in the military
- You CAN ask if they are willing to self-identify as one of several protected classes of veteran
- You CAN ask about the type of discharge received HOWEVER you had better have a good business reason for doing so, otherwise it is advisable NOT to ask for type of discharge.
(See this SHRM article about the types of questions that should not be asked on the employment application )
State and Federal Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) laws do not prohibit you from asking about the type of discharge. However, asking a veteran to reveal the nature (“characterization of service” in military parlance) of their discharge is considered private information, similar to asking someone “what kind of a disability do you have?”
So, in terms of hiring a veteran, in what instances would it be appropriate to ask about the characterization of service?
One example: if the position requires the employee to obtain a security clearance.
Another example: There are a number of companies making significant commitments to hire veterans. As this is essentially creating a “veteran preference” (similar to what government agencies offer), the employer can set the criteria for this preference within legal limitations. The employer has a justified business reason for offering this preference to a specific demographic (in this case, veterans) as this demographic has documented challenges with finding employment. So, the employer can set the criteria for this veteran preference as an honorable discharge or a favorable discharge.
What are the types of discharges? Here is a table to help you see the differences:
| Types of Military Discharges | ||
| Administrative | ||
| Discharge Name | Considered | Notes |
| Honorable | Favorable | The gold standard is the honorable discharge, which the majority of veterans will receive. It means they have met or exceeded the standards for professional and personal conduct in the military. |
| General Under Honorable Conditions | Favorable | This discharge means the veteran did not meet all of the administrative criteria for exemplary service. The military has different standards of conduct that do not apply in the civilian world. For example, in the military a person can be let go because he/she:
Any of the above situations (and others) would be/could have been considered not fully meeting the military’s standards of personal conduct, but would not prevent a civilian from obtaining employment. |
| Other than honorable (also known as OTH) | Typically unfavorable, but depends on your employment criteria | The veteran may have been dismissed for infractions such as fighting/physical altercations, DUI, drug use or possession (not a comprehensive list, but some of the most common reasons)A person with an OTH discharge will not be able to obtain a security clearance. |
| Uncharacterized | N/A | This is an entry level separation generally given when the person has spent less than 180 days in the military. Disability may or may not be a factor. |
| Punitive | ||
| Discharge Name | Considered | Notes |
| Bad conduct (also known as BCD) | Unfavorable | For either of these, the discharge comes as a result of a court-martial and often after a period of confinement. The veteran would have been part of a case involving desertion, security violations, embezzlement, use of violence, murder, sexual assault, etc.A person with a BDC or dishonorable discharge will not be able to obtain a security clearance. |
| Dishonorable | Unfavorable | |
My advice: if you are going to set criteria for a veteran preference, consider making it a “favorable” discharge (which encompasses both honorable and general under honorable conditions) rather than only honorable.
If you are thinking, “Well, I won’t ask the question directly, but I will, as part of background screening, verify the type of discharge”, know that you do have to obtain the veteran’s permission to verify the nature of the discharge. This is not something you would do indiscriminately, just as you would not conduct extensive financial background checks on someone who is not being considered for a job that has significant financial responsibilities. A veteran’s military service record is not considered public information, so you must have a valid reason to ask for it and you must have the veteran’s permission to obtain information from it.
If you are going to ask about the characterization of service, I would indicate on whatever form (electronic or paper) you are currently using to ask for permission to conduct background screening that one of the screening elements will be whether the applicant has an honorable discharge (or favorable discharge) from the US Military.
If your company uses a 3rd party vendor to conduct its employee background screening, confirm that they offer military service record verification. Many screening companies will confirm whether someone has served in the military, but verifying the characterization of service is a different process, which involves asking to see a veteran’s DD-214 (“Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty”). Presuming your vendor does offer this type of verification, what you want them to confirm is “does this applicant have an ‘honorable/favorable’ discharge” (depending on the criteria you set)? This should be a YES or NO answer – the less you know about the specific type of discharge, the better.
If you conduct your background screening in house, your screeners need to know how to read a DD-214. I have written a paper that describes HOW to read a DD-214, what to look for, what to ignore and which copy of the DD-214 to ask for to obtain the info you seek. Click here to request a copy of “How to Read a DD-214”. Know that neither an employer nor a background screening company can obtain a copy of the veteran’s DD-214 without the veteran’s written permission.
The Value Of a Veteran 
Good Info – Thanks
Where there is smoke there is fire… Anything other than an Honorable Discharge is a key indicator that something is wrong and should be questioned deeper by any employer that is going to spend time/ Money on the candidate. Not to mention their issue may be a safety risk and put others in harms way (I.E. Drugs, alcohol abuse etc). The Military gives people OTH, Dishonorable and General discharges purposely to brand them so future employers know what they are getting at least in the near term. 3-5 years removed from the military ok maybe people can change but the discharge will always notate the need to dig deeper and find out the problem. The Military also puts a nice little discharge code so you can look it up and find out what they were discharged for. The DD-214 is public record and should be used as employment tool when vetting a new employee just like a police records or driving records check… it also makes Honorably Discharged Veterans more valuable because there is “Official” Information available to show prior record of character which is not available on civilian candidates.
Hi Joseph – thank you for commenting. RE: your mention of the discharge codes – I would be very careful suggesting that people (especially recruiters/employers) try to look up the codes. There is a tremendous amount of erroneous info available on the web, and a recruiter may think they have found the mother lode of discharge codes when in fact they are codes from another era (which have since changed) or just flat out wrong. I have found those myself on the web and don’t recommend anyone make a hiring decision based on that.
Also, because some of those codes reveal infomation that is otherwise protected and cannot be asked by an employer, the recruiter who tries to find and translate the codes may become privvy to info that will get them into trouble.
Joseph I do not agree with you. I have been involved in processing Soldiers for discharge and I do not recall us considering the character of discharge as a way of communicating to future employers. That is not the point of a characterization. We would recommend characterization based on the rules internal to the, in my case, Army.
Further, the military regularly goes through cycles of expansion and contraction. When it is contracting the number of General Discharges rises. The fact that a service person has a stubborn weight problem may get them a General Discharge. Until very recently so would have being LGBT. If as expected the military contracts in the next few years I expect there will be many people receiving General Discharges that would make good employees at any company. Just as laid-off employee of a corporation are likely to be good workers somewhere else.
DD-214’s are not public records. While it is true many vets file theirs at the local courthouse (like I did), you just can’t walk in and look at someones record. When I went in for a copy of mine I needed to prove it was mine and show ID. Even when you apply for a Fed job you only need to provide a copy if you’re claiming vet preference.
I have an OTH (other than honorable) from the USMC reserves because I had unsatisfactory attendance (UA’s). I later worked for a major defense contractor, was upfront with my background and a few months later I had to apply for a security clearance and was denied the interim but approved later on.
I been looking to upgrade my discharge to a General, since the OTH seems harsh compared when others get the same for drugs and abuse.
George,
There is a time limit on upgrading your OTH. You have to request it to the Naval Review Board, If you OTH was just becuase of UA you probably have a good chance. I agree with you that OTH seems harsh for a UA. Being grouped in with Druggies etc doesnt seem right
Disagree with this completely. I have an uncharacterized discharge because of an injury. I was offered PTRP and was told I’d never have a combat job. My other option was a med board, which would take 7-10 months, and my final option was an ELS (uncharacterized). I took the ELS and left with letters of recommendations from both my CO and all 3 drill sergeants. Nothing can summarize how you served other than the word of your superiors while you were in.
Mr. Dillinger is poorly informed. The US Governments regulations about discharge codes consider them FOUO and are off limits to civilian employers. You can find them on the web; however you will also find many inaccurate listings. Use of these codes for making a hiring decision is illegal and can get the employer who is using these sued for discrimination and also for lost wages Mr. Joseph Dillinger has opened his business up to litigation which could cost him tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Certain codes have multiple meanings and without matching it to the narrative reason a poorly skilled HR manager could be denying employment to someone he thought had a psychiatric disorder like schizophrenia when in fact the prospective employee only had a physical inability to lose weight or was unable to pass one portion of a physical fitness test.
Mr. Dillinger is violating State and Federal employment laws as well as privacy laws by his own admission; any Veteran who was denied employment for reasons like Mr. Dillinger mentioned should contact a Lawyer ASAP.
Mr. Dillinger should be ashamed of himself. He is discriminating against Soldiers who have fought for his freedom, many have lost limbs or been physically disabled.
He is worse than many who welcomed Vietnam Veterans home from hell by spitting on them and calling them “Baby Killers”. He is worse because he figuratively “spits” on them and then has the nerve to deny them the right to earn a living. He would put these brave men and women on the street homeless. I hope he finds himself on the corner begging for money.
I my man received a BCD in the year 1970, I got into some trouble and was discharged 44 years ago. I have to admit it is not something I am proud of but it is something I have to accept and cannot change, 44 years is a long time, they may as well gave me life because that is just what I got, life without honor and it especially hurts when i have to explain to my children and grand children. I never killed anyone or anything like that, nothing demented, I only went awol, I know you say to your self well that is bad enough, well let me tell you the story. I enlisted as soon as I became 18 in the US Navy, I went through boot camp then came home for 30 days, I had met a girl just before I went into the service, and when I came home on leave we spent the whole 30 days together, well my 30 day leave was over, and I had to go to Norfolk Va. to report to my ship, I had not been on the ship a week and my girlfriend and her family were there in Norfolk, they were on their way to Charleston Sc. and I was off duty and the took my with them so I would know where she and her family had moved, well her step Dad was a complete jerk, he was a drinker and he started to abuse my girls mother when he was drunk. ok that same weekend he got drunk and started abusing my girls Mother and Sister. then he made the mistake of turning on my girl and I jumped up and beat him good. then the police were called and I was taken to the brig in charleston, because of that I was awol when I should have been back on board my ship, my first week and I am awol, well after they let me out of the brig so I could go back to Norfolk. but I was worried about my girl so I went back to her house and gave her the money for bus fare back to Indiana. well I got into another fight with her step father and went back to the brig. Well when I got back to the ship i was to go up for a Captains mast and when I did he told me he gave me 45 days restriction to the ship and recommended me for a court martial, I was just a 18 year old boy I had no idea what was going to happen, I did not have any counsel and I did not know what to do, I only knew what I had seen on TV when a guy got a court martial, they would put a hood over his head and shoot him. I feared for my life and as soon as the 45 day restriction was over I left the ship never to return I ran away because I was afraid of the court martial, well they sent the FBI to my parents home and picked me up, I spent two weeks in the county jail waiting to be transfered to where ever they were going to send me. in the end i was released from the Navy with a BCD and I didn’t want to be kicked out I wanted to serve, but I made a mistake . well 44 years later I look back at that time and wish I could go back and change it but I can’t,
Try to let it go, I am. I was given an Honorable in 1975 from Navy boot camp because of sleepwalking. Fact is I used it as an excuse to get out, I did actually sleepwalk that’s why I was given an Honorable. But I was very immature and naive and should have tried to stay in and fulfill my commitment. I would have stayed but after being mistreated for a week in holding camp I decided to I’d had enough. Truth is some of us for various reasons don’t mature as we should and try to become adults with a child’s mind. The military doesn’t care as your just a number to them, only God and your family really care so why not give them your best. Live a good life and be a Godly person, life isn’t fair, I suffered a severe bout of depression over this mistake and never felt good enough. It will always be a regret but I’ve chosen to live in the moment and let it go. Can’t change it but I can be a better person. I suggest you do the same
This is a little off topic. My company [Homes4Vets] intends to build homes for homeless Veterans and put them through an extensive rehabilitation program leading to employment in a respectable occupation. We are considering only accepting “Honorably Discharged” folks into the program, so as to improve the candidate’s chances of success. Would this be an acceptable practice, or are we headed for trouble?
Often the veterans who still served, need the help as much as one with an Honorable. Also remember the discharge is General, Under Honorable conditions. As a prior Commander there are people I dismissed from the service who biggest ‘sin’ was immaturity and thus inadaptability to military service… or being overweight. They are still a vet… they still made a decision to VOLUNTEER to serve when so many today coose not to consider service to our cou try.But then maybe, after almost 15 years in the Transition Program, my focus is on helping ALL Vets return to and become a productive member of our non military community.
From the home4vets description, it appears the focus is on homeless vets????? Are you working with an organization like the VFW… AL/… DAV etc. ? And thank you for your initiative as well.
I can understand your position, but ours is, do we want to take a chance that a person who would not do what it took to stay within regs [whether it was because of immaturity or a love of Twinkies,] has all of a sudden decided to become responsible and is willing to commit to a two year program leading to a dramatic change of lifestyle. I would like to see all homeless have a “come to Jesus” moment, but within the parameters of our resources, limiting the program to those with the greatest likelihood of success seems to make sense. Am I to interpret your response that you see no legitimate obstacle to such a limit on applicants as to require they be “HD”?
“whether it was because of immaturity or a love of Twinkies,] has all of a sudden decided to become responsible”
You mean, do kids grow up? Yes they do. Was your maturity process an “all of a sudden” thing? Some people “get it” later than others.
MY line is with BCD and dishonorable because they had to have court martial to get that (judge and jury). Since no judiciary process is needed for OTH, I don’t turn them away.
I got a BCD in 1993 for shooting three approved targets on successive sniping missions in 1987 while with a SF task Force in Central America. 5 years after the fact and two Commander and Chiefs later I was charged with two counts of murder which were dropped if I agreed to the BCD, I never saw a court room. I remember as if it were yesterday the two Jag guys telling me my discharge would be upgraded automatically when it cooled down for political reasons. Since then I have never even gotten a speeding ticket, have earned both a bachelors degree and MBA all in hopes of landing a job, no dice. I have never taken a cent in state or federal benefits and my son is now a member of Special Operations. I believe in the mission and paid the price, a steeper price than some REMF that never got shot for what a trade deal Clinton wanted to get cheaper bananas?
I’m a few years late to this discussion. I may be contradicting myself but the ones with honorable discharge who will get jobs and more opportunities will probably need less of the help. There are disabled vets who lose out on benefits and need the help. Those are the ones who kill themselves because they are not being helped. Go online and research some stories, there was one guy who was punished with OTH after having his face disfigured after an IED explosion. He was drug tested and accused of using drugs. He was using his medication which had the same chemical as the drug tested. He was not given a chance to re test and explain himself. The Military is a tricky place. You should consider others who need it the most and hear out their stories.
“A person with an OTH discharge will not be able to obtain a security clearance.”
This in incorrect. An security clearance investigation will look at why a person was given the discharge, has he been in trouble since (does he continue the same behavior) and how long ago it occured. A person with an OTH can also get VA benefits depending on the circumstance.
Agree. See comment posted above.
Being a felon used to bar you from a clearance, but that has changed slightly. As there is a great deal of false information here are the requirements:
This process is not designed to select perfect people, but rather those people that exhibit high standards of honesty and integrity.
A BCD is NOT a dishonorable so they can get a clearance:
http://www.dod.gov/dodgc/doha/industrial/05-00374.h1.html
What can disqualify you?
•You are not a U.S. citizen
•You were dishonorably discharged from the military
•You are currently involved in illegal drug use
•You have been judged as mentally incompetent or mentally incapacitated by a mental health professional
•You have had a clearance revoked for security reasons
•You are considered a dual citizen AND you are currently holding a passport from a country other than the U.S.
What may not disqualify you but may delay the receipt of a DoD clearance?
•You have significant foreign national contacts (immediate family members living in other countries)
•You own property in another country
•You have been convicted of a felony within the past 10 years
•You have a significant history of financial problems with heavy indebtedness and late payments (over 180 days), bad debts, fairly current tax liens, repossessions and garnishments
Just to expand on my previous comment, here is an example:
Granted
http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/04-10454.h1.html
Denied (lied)
Click to access 08-09892.h1.pdf
The major reason people with an OTH get denied is they lie about it.
Just as side note. As a recruit in 1975 I had a sleepwalking problem, which I had listed on my papers prior to enlistment in the Navy. 5 weeks into training I was told that I slept walk by the fire watchman on duty the night before. We had just gotten a new CC because our old one had a drinking problem. I was very naive and immature and made the mistake of telling the Doctor that I wanted out after he yelled at me, he never gave me the chance to explain, Even though I had told my new CC I wanted to stay he sent me to medical anyway. What a nightmare, spent two days being treated like a I was nut case, I was so naive I thought it was just a process for discharge. Went before the Captains Mast, explained to them how why I told the doctor I wanted out and said I would stay. They told me I would be set back in training but if I wanted out I would get an Honorable Discharge, because the investigation proved I was telling the truth I agreed to stay until they told me I was being set back in boot, so like an immature 18 year old I got out. Didn’t know I was getting an RE4 code, didn’t know the true nature of my discharge until I tried to re up 3 years later.The Navy was right I was very immature,and a sleep walker but they took advantage of that,and railroaded me. That incident has haunted me my whole life, I’ve managed to make a decent life for myself but will always be haunted by what happen. I’ve accepted my responsibility for what happened, but if someone had just took the time to encourage me and help me understand what was truly happening to me, the story may have been totally different. God only knows what would have happened if I had stayed, maybe I would have matured faster and made a career in the Military or maybe I would have gotten in a lot of trouble. Who knows, times were different then, My biggest sin was immaturity and not believing that God would get me through bootcamp. My point is a lot of decent highly motivated teenagers are immature and the Military has no right to brand them for life. My recruiter knew I was a sleep walker before I went in and told me not to put it on my enlistment papers, thank God I did anyway. Even at 56 years old I would still serve if asked and have a great deal of respect for our Military.men and women. If a kid ask me about enlisting I would encourage them to wait until they are 21 or older and have had some life experience first, the Military doesn’t care if your immature at 18, they’ll just kick you out.
Branding with an OTH discharge is devastating even after 30 yrs. I was in the Navy and loved the Navy went through boot camp and @ the end of (A)school got into trouble, yes drugs it was drugs @ 18 yrs old, I made very poor choices, why and how went wrong, I got in with the wrong crowd. I was the one it was my fault again I made poor choices. When I got out I worked hard went to nursing school, started with associates degree and went on to get bachelors in nursing, BSN, have worked in the operating room most of my career. Totally got it together. Have never got into trouble since except one speeding ticket. So yes when I was 18 I made a huge mistake there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think about it. But should I be branded for life and never be given a chance. People make mistakes. I think if you have proven to be a productive member of society that the OTH discharge should be upgraded. If the gov is afraid of the discharged member will want benefits then I believe the member that sustained theOTH stamp would sign a waiver for denying the benefits just upgrade the OTH. My punishment was losing the most I ever wanted it is/was devastating.
I was a prosecutor (trial counsel) in the Marines for several years. Reference was made to the expansion and contraction of the service, and this definitely changed how cases were processed, in addition to the whim of the commander. New commanders always want to seem tough and will punish their people more harshly. out of I could have three young men do exactly the same thing and the results would be all over the place. The smallest incident can get you to a Court-Martial. We have Art 32s in place to prevent that, but I’ve been able able to go to trail without evidence at the art 32, just a promise to get some. I would drop cases if I couldn’t get any, but some of my fellow prosecutors would leave the charge on because then it might not get to trial, and we need trial in order to get promoted. (Didn’t see that coming did you, prosecution and defense counsel have a direct interest in taking even the smallest infraction to trial because we can put it on our fitrep for promotion). Please don’t be quick to judge our warfighters based on the characterization of service they get because we are not at all fair in how we process them. I’ve seen several cases go to a General Court-Martial and result in a conviction for a small offense that could have been handled with yelling and maybe an NJP, but the judge might still give a bad discharge for whatever reason and he still gets a conviction on his record. Don’t ruin a person’s life because our military system is unfair and arbitrary.
No one loved being a Marine more than me. I loved it. I planned it for years in high school. I lived it before I even went to boot.
But, I was a small town Christian girl, and I was naive. I wasn’t prepared for the big leagues. After getting more than a little drunk for the first time (I had no idea as I never drank before that this kool-aid stuff would do what it did to me) some guy told me he was giving me a ride to my friend’s place and took me back to his hotel and raped me.
I was shunned. I was chastised for having drinks underage. I was given inadequate treatment. I was too embarrassed to tell anyone back home I had “lost my virginity” or got drunk. I didn’t know how to cope. I got hurt in training. I lost the job I had signed up for in enlistment. I went home for a spell on temp recruitment duty and had the recruiter making sexual comments to me which compounded to my mental suffering.
When I reached my duty station I began to self destruct. I suffered from flashbacks and major depression in private. For awhile on the surface I was excelling and leading my platoon. I got put as a roommate with a girl getting ready to be discharged for drug charges. I took a long weekend over labor day with some male USMC friends. We made friends with a couple camping next door at this lake (which was a bit like spring break meets mardi gras weekend. I went out on the jet ski with the man from the couple. He threatened to rape me on the other side of the lake in a remote area. He told me I need to do this or that and ride down the channel with him flashing people. I obeyed. I was terrified. It was almost a relief I got arrested. I think I pleaded no contest to this charge just to get out and get home so the USMC didn’t find out. i wasn’t going to wait for trial and defend myself.
Having been abused and threatened, my PTSD and depression kicked into high gear. One day one of her friends came by and said he’d give me a pill to make me happy. I didn’t even know that was “drugs.” Drugs friend your brain and made you hallucinate. Thats what I knew about drugs. But that night… I fell straight into the world of drugs. Of all things… of all days…the day after I accidentally on purpose fell into this world…they had a Urinalysis. I panicked and had my girlfriend take mine. somehow someone found out… I quickly confessed thinking they would have mercy on me because I was honest. All i wanted was help. Instead… I was punished by lockdown– lockdown with a roomate who was in trouble. Lockdown with all her friends who were also in trouble and regularly hung out in my room. They became the only people who paid any attention to me. They were the ones who foiled my suicide. I was thrown under the bus, and they were the only ones– these bad eggs, that would help me survive.
To wrap up this long sob story… Don’t judge a discharge by its cover. I was court martialed. All through my confinement I trained in the brig hoping that an appeal would be approved with all the testimony to my character from back home… that they wouldn’t discharge me because of what happened…. that I would still get a chance to retire in my beloved Corps. But it was not to be…
I live with a BCD and a tattoo that says Death Before Dishonor. But I was just a hurt immature mentally ill teenager who needed help. Am I that person now 14 years later? No. Don’t judge me by my discharge. Please don’t ask. I don’t know how to explain in an interview this story…
Joining the Navy was the biggest mistake of my life. I liked drinking with the boys. Everyone did it. I got in a couple of fist fights at the barracks, no one got hurt, and these sissy punk E-7’s and 8’s along with a wet behind the ears commander gave me a general under honorable. They offered me alcohol treatment that was a joke. It felt more like summer camp and a vacation from the daily micromanagement that is the Navy. I only did the treatment program because I thought it would cause them to change their mind about discharging me and let me serve out the rest of my enlistment, one year. They caught word that I drank one night and decided to tack on for reason of alcohol rehabilitation failure. Now I have that permanently tattooed on my record and I am embarrassed to show my DD-214 to people. Stay away from the military. Just don’t serve. They will take the smallest incident and turn it into a 9/11 type disaster. I was recently asked during an interview why I got out in three years. I do not think that was his business to ask since it was a CPA firm but I was forthright. Yeah did not get that job. You civilians on here criticizing anything less than an honorable and talking about turning people away from your charity for veterans make me sick. Some of the worse people in my command had perfect records. Guys that would snort coke off their wall lockers take opiates and cheat on their spouses every chance they got. Some of the guys who got honorable discharges were straight up committing felonies on base. One guy was stealing peoples cars and going to mexico to buy prostitutes and smoke crack. Thank God he was caught, but he only had about three months left on his enlistment when he was and the only reason he was caught is a couple of crooked Mexican cops searched his car while trying to cross. In doing so they tore the thing apart and made it irreparable. So don’t give me your riteous crap. You have all done things in your life that if pulled in the Navy and being discovered by your Chief or CO you too would have a permanent dent on your record. I signed the dotted line and took an oath while you were too cowardly to even consider serving your country. Don’t tread on me you civilian SOB’s. You have not earned that right until you have served and done your time. Then maybe I will let you shame me. My friends from the Navy do not. In fact everyone I knew contemplated going UA or smoking pot so they could pop and get out of their contract sooner. The Military lifestyle sucks. And it is a lifestyle you know nothing about. It is designed that way and therefore no my DD-214 should not be public record. I should have politely stated that the reason for my early release does not concern you to the employer and told him that if he chooses to use this against me I will take his ass to court as that is my right. Next time I am asked that this is exactly what I will say. Sorry for venting about ignorant moron civilians
Good God this is true. Civilians don’t know how it works. New COs were notorious for hammering enlisted. Docs would dismiss injuries. And if there was any way to mess up someone’s DD214 someone in the command would. Heaven forbid trying to get a records tooh-took me 24 years.
I am not only concurring with you but want to mention a new concern- VA ID cards. They state the purpose of them is to help get discounts/some other nonsense. I’d say it’s only good for tracking you. saw the new California VA approved version this weekend and right across the top is says, “SERVICE CONNECTED”-really? How many folks are going to challenge that-“What’s your so-called diasbility?” Well, all of them are. Every person you show that to is going to question that, just like a less- than- honorable discharge printed on your DD214. This is enough to knock someone right out of the labor market and enough to be arrested at a traffic stop if the police need a reason-“He/she must have PTSD and thus must be dangerous.” Sounds like good way to lose your privacy, freedom, gun ownership or driver’s license. It’s kind of like a green card- it screams, “Watch out for me!”
I wish I saw this sooner, had an employeer ask and everything. I was naive and sent it all so, we will see if i get that job. I was thinking in the back of my mind, “Do I really need to disclose all that?” I don’t think anyone could of said it better but you.
Yep similar situation here man Back in August I was a A E-4 returning from Afghanistan. Upon Arrival everything seemed to be going great just a little difficulty readjusting to the States. Well three weeks later (once all my friends were back) We decided that it’d be fun to go celebrate coming home safely. Well that very night we all got a little drunk but i just so happened to get pulled over and arrested for D.W.I in that moment so many things went through my head but i thought hey we will see. well the next week i was informed by my commander that they would be processing me for separation ( chapter 14-12c commission of a serious offense). The very next day I got a civilian attorney on my side. I was never convicted of that DWI to this day but still processed out. Wow innocent until proven guilty doesn’t apply huh. I was discharged general under honorable conditions for a crime that I in all actuality never even committed. I want to get my discharge upgraded but not completely sure on it. I feel like i was cheated out of everything real kicker since up until then i had never had so much as a negative counciling or anything so yea they dont care and in a sense i think the whole military justic e system needs to be looked at and revised just as anything else with time.
I spent 5 years (active duty) Army, with 2 deployments under my belt, one to Iraq and another to Afghanistan. Upon my last deployment I was assaulted and suffered from erratic sleep patterns, paranoia and a list of other neurological problems that kept me from sleeping for days. Due to my ability to stay up for days they prescribed me sleep and mood altering medication (as commanders and others noticed my personality had changed drastically), which when taken caused me to miss formations, sleep in, be lethargic and be in a horrible mood. Long story short, how can someone (myself) get a OTH discharge, when I was given a good conduct medal, a couple ARCOMs and AAMs? I went to airborne school, air assault school PLDC, SERE B and was selected for special ops while in, which I never got to asses for due to my problems stemming from my head trauma from an assault that happened off post while on active duty. Now going on 8years and just recently (last year) was approved and diagnosed with PTSD and TBI from which they gave me an 80% service connected disability, I wonder if they could have discharged me differently? I know they were coming up on another deployment and seemed as if they rushed me out. (Good old 101st) I have managed to keep employment where I am currently at since my departure from the military, been promoted to a manager and am working my way to graduating with my bachelors in the upcoming months. Would now be a good time to try and apply for an upgrade as the VA recognized me with these disabilities when the ARMY did not.