It would seem to be a fairly straight forward question: Are you a veteran? A civilian who has never served in the military likely defines veteran as someone who has served in the military. However, people who have served in the military see many more shades of gray in the answer.
If you are managing a military veteran recruiting initiative, you have many reasons for asking veterans to self-identify. And, depending on your reasons, there are many ways to define “veteran”:
- For purposes of collecting the Work Opportunity Tax Credit, a veteran is generally defined as someone who has been released from active duty.
- For purposes of maintaining compliance with the Office of Federal Contracts Compliance Programs (OFCCP), a veteran is defined as one who was discharged or released from active duty because of a service connected disability or one who has received an authorized campaign badge or Armed Forces Service Medal.
As part of its Notice For Proposed Rulemaking, one change that the OFCCP has proposed to the Vietnam Era Veterans’ Readjustment Assistance Act (VEVRAA) regulation is that employers ask the veteran to self-identify at the point of application (not only at the time of a job offer). How you ask for this information can impact your response rate. If you simply state “Are you a veteran?” veterans may not self-identify for a variety of reasons:
- If the applicant is in the final stages of transitioning from active military service (on ‘terminal leave” or other service-specific classification that indicates they are using up vacation time, etc.), they may say “no” because, until the military paycheck stops, they are still on active duty even if they are no longer reporting to their military unit on a daily basis. They can be in that status for several weeks or months and will be actively job hunting, applying and interviewing, but not yet seeing themselves as a veteran because they have not yet received their DD-214 (Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty).
- If the applicant is someone who is currently serving in the National Guard or Reserves, they may not reply “yes, I am a veteran” because they see themselves as still serving. To some National Guard and Reserve members, a veteran is someone who has completed their military service and has separated (completed their contract with the military) or retired. Other National Guard and Reserve members might say “yes” if they had been mobilized (called to active duty) at any time during their Guard/Reserve tenure, but those who have never been mobilized might say “no”.
- If the applicant is someone whose military service is from the 1970’s, 80’s or even 90’s, there are those who will say “no” because they have a belief that only those military members who have seen combat are the ones who can claim to be veterans. If they served for a few years and never deployed to a conflict, they may not perceive themselves to be a “veteran”. There are also those whose service may have been short (2 years) or from long ago (1970-1990) that they don’t see how or why an employer would view their military service as relevant to their current civilian employment or job hunt.
Also, if you ask the question incorrectly or too narrowly, the veteran may not answer the question. I recently received an email from a veteran who is actively job hunting who stated that in recent weeks he had two different employers ask if he was the recipient of a specific military medal. He was perplexed as to why he was being asked this question and why the request was so specific. I explained that the employers in question were likely government contractors who are subject to the OFCCP, and who therefore have to track and report the number of protected veterans they hire. One of the protected classes is veterans who have been awarded an authorized campaign badge or Armed Forces Service Medal, and there are many badges that qualify. The veteran stated that he earned several of the badges, but not the specific medal he was asked about. So, he was frustrated that he may have inadvertently taken himself out of consideration for a job because he honestly answered a question that was incorrectly asked. “If they had asked if I had earned a ‘an authorized campaign badge or Armed Forces Service Medal’ rather than the specific medal they mentioned, I would have said ‘yes’ even if I did not understand at the time why I was being asked the question.”
So, my recommendation is to first ask the question as broadly as possible: “Do you currently serve in the military, or have you ever served in the military?” Asking the question this way paves the way for most people who have served to honestly answer “yes” (if they choose to answer at all). You will still get the holdouts who, because the answer is optional, will not voluntary reveal their status. I will write a follow up blog on how to coax those members out of hiding. One thing I will mention now is that you should follow your question with a statement explaining why you are asking for this information. Something akin to “Our company is committed to the recruitment and retention of those who have served in the military. By self-identifying now, we can ensure that your resume will be given fair consideration by members of our team who have been trained to understand military service and culture.”
Once a person self-identifies as having served in the military, then you can ask additional questions later (upon the offer of a job) that will further identify whether this person is considered a protected class of veteran (for OFCCP purposes) or eligible for the WOTC.
Lisa,
Your advice is spot on. Keep educating!!!
Great article – well done!
I also think that some veterans don’t self-identify because they are afraid of what I call “veteran bias”. They are worried that the employer will not hire them because they might get deployed or they suffer from PTSD. I agree with asking the question more broadly, “Do you currently serve in the military, or have you ever served in the military?” That is a good idea.
The other challenge that I have seen is that employers that are federal contractors might only be asking for the four types of veteran that they are required to report on the VETS-100A. Not all veterans fit into one of those buckets. They need to have choices that will cover all scenarios. I would also suggest a choice of, “Veteran, but do not wish to disclose my status.”. One of the choices needs to be, “Currently serving”. Employers need to ensure they have covered all the bases not just the bases required for compliance.
I agree with having a very visible statement of the company’s support of the military. Put it up in the lobby ! Make sure your employment website has some type of indication that the company supports the hiring of veterans.
I also agree with giving applicants multiple opportunities to disclose their veteran status. They might have been intimidated during the interview but now that they are sitting in the new hire orientation they might more at ease with disclosing the information.
Hi Patrick – after years of being married to a senior human resources professional who is well-versed in hiring practices we have to be very careful about asking questions about anything not related to the position, including veteran status, during the interview and hiring process. If veteran status is not germane to the employment (typically it is not) then that question cannot be asked during the interview, or at the time of filling out an application. I like the “Do you currently serve in the military, or have you ever served in the military?” question for collecting data, but I would guard against asking that. If someone asks that question of a veteran who discloses, then the veteran is not hired (regardless of qualifications), the company just exposed itself to a potential discrimination lawsuit.
Unfortunately there’s no easy answer for this and the good-will efforts intended for veterans are complicated by existing rules. Looked at the other way, if a veteran is hired at a company over another equally qualified person, for example a demographic minority, then the company may also be exposing itself to a lawsuit. The veterans preference for government positions is part of federal law, but hiring for corporate America does not enjoy the same protections, which is why it is a very delicate issue.
Essentially what has to happen is that someone needs to be hired on their merits alone, and after employment if that person turns out to be a veteran, then the company can benefit from that positive statistic. On the issue of national guard or reserve deployment potential, that is also protected by law and employers have little choice to preserve a similar position for those employees if called up for an active duty tour of duty (involuntary call up).
Hope all of that sufficiently muddies the waters for everyone! great blog string.
Great points. i always prefer to explain why the data is being requested. Are you a veteran definitely means different things to all those who have served.
Great post Lisa. Working on this issue right now, as a matter of fact.
Since the topic is out there, are you aware of any studies that might shed light on the % of Veterans who do not self disclose, either as a factor of assesing themselves as “not a veteran” or intentionally as to avoid discrimination?
Hi Chris – thanks for commenting. Mike Haynie’s team at the Institute for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University did some level of study on this issue, but I don’t know if they have actual statistics or just acknowledged that some veterans don’t want to identify or don’t think they should identify as a veteran. Le tme know if you need Mike’s contact info.
That would be very helpful, Lisa. Pretty sure you have my email.
Hi Chris – having data such as this would imply that those who wish not to disclose have somehow disclosed in order to be accurately captured in the survey data. This is one of the great challenges in Higher Education where my work is, as well a in the workplace. The only solution I can come up with, when developing or considering programming for veterans on campus is to do things that will support a veteran regardless of whether or not they self-identify – like make sure faculty and staff are respectful always and not making off-handed comments about the war and military service, etc.
Lisa – well put – the general question you suggest asking is the right one – another key thing to keep in mind is that there are numerous legal definitions of “veteran” at the state and federal level. Simply serving in the military, but then getting a dishonorable discharge strips you of all legal status as a veteran, but you have served in the past nonetheless. Ironically, in many states, serving and entire career in the National Guard, but not deploying under certain circumstances or for certain spans of time can also preclude one from earning the title of veteran.
Very confusing, but your point is well taken, if you need to know, ask the general/broad question, but if you don’t need to know, better off not bringing it up as veterans may not want to draw attention to their status as veterans for a myriad of reasons.
Great information and it rings true to what I have seen. Providing an easy method for veterans to update their status in an HRIS and having a POC that understands the different OFCCP statuses is helpful, too.
“Once a person self-identifies as having served in the military, then you can ask additional questions later (upon the offer of a job) that will further identify whether this person is considered a protected class of veteran (for OFCCP purposes) or eligible for the WOTC.”
Does this mean a business will not know if hiring a veteran will qualify under the WOTC until after they hire the veteran?
There are various employment circumstances and veterans status conditions that might affect protected class for veterans. In general, but there are many exceptions, veterans are not a protected class of citizens – this is a false impression by many, including me until I researched the law. However, when hiring for government jobs, there is typically a veterans preference, which gives veterans a substantial advantage over non-veterans for hiring.
Once you get into veterans with disabilities, then the statues for disabled workers come into play. Many companies are targeting veterans for employment out of goodwill right now, but that does not make veterans a protected class – favored for the moment, but that will pass in a few years as the war in Afghanistan wanes.
Hope that helps.
Private employers are not required to give Veterans preference. However, USERRA forbids employment based discrimination in a manner similar to how Title VII does for race and gender.
http://www.dol.gov/vets/programs/userra/USERRA_Federal.pdf
RIGHT TO BE FREE FROM DISCRIMINATION AND RETALIATION
If you:
are a past or present member of the uniformed service;
have applied for membership in the uniformed service; or
are obligated to serve in the uniformed service;
then an employer may not deny you:
initial employment;
reemployment;
retention in employment;
promotion; or
any benefit of employment
because of this status.
Further a private employer may give a preference for the disabled, including disabled Veterans. That would be a non-discriminatory reason other than race or gender for the hire.
http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/ada_veterans_employers.cfm
6. May a private employer give preference in hiring to a veteran with a disability over other applicants?
Yes. Although the ADA prohibits discrimination “on the basis of disability,” it does not prevent affirmative action on behalf of individuals with disabilities. Thus, a private employer may — but is not required to — hire an individual with a disability who is qualified (including a veteran with a disability) over a qualified applicant without a disability.
In addition, the Vietnam Era Veteran’s Readjustment Assistance Act (VEVRAA) requires that businesses with a federal contract or subcontract in the amount of $25,000 or more take affirmative action to employ and advance qualified disabled veterans. VEVRAA also requires these businesses to list their employment openings with appropriate employment service delivery systems, and to give covered veterans priority in referral to such openings.[8]
Bernard -good points, but keep in mind that USERRA only applies to those already hired, and is not as ironclad as it seems. It is also not a clean as you suggest – hiring discrimination based on veteran status is problematic to prove. The only thing that employers can’t do is to ask about veteran status on an application.
– there’s lots of loopholes and there is a push to clamp down on veteran who take advantage of the USERRA protections while they take on deployments overseas as individual augmentees.
The short version is “veteran” is not a category protected like race, gender, age, religion, etc – not that I agree with that, but there are not the same protections.
A veteran is someone that made a decision to do what most others decided not to do. We are the protectors of our nation. We gave up careers and opportunities to serve our nation. We are the ones that work 365 days a years including the holidays. When I first left the military in 1977 I was afraid to tell anyone I was a veteran because of the treatment my fellow Vietnam vets received when they returned home. I re-enlisted 21 years later into the Air National Guard. I wanted to make a difference. I was activated on September 11, 2001 for Operation Noble Eagle. I was deployed twice to the desert. I know it effected my wife greatly as well as my employer who stood by me. My pay each time deployed went down but I was somehow able to stay above board. I was the oldest at both my locations. A veteran is one that makes sacrifices to serve his or her country in times of need. The sacrifices are even sometimes the ultimate sacrifice. A veteran is the one you see at parades standing at attention and saluting the stars and stripes as they pass by. A veteran is the one that does not wine when assigned doing a task that they are assigned to do for we have done much worse and not complained. I remember a speech given by a young president when I was just a child. Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. A veteran is one with inherent leadership skills as well as project management experience. We live and work by a special code in bedded in us since our first days in basic training. These are just some of the things that I feel a veteran is.
Lisa, Nice article. I appreciate your insight & HR tip on how to ask. Are National Guard or Reservists considered Veterans if neither has served on active duty for 90 days or more other than for training? I’ve told my nephew that he has no Veteran status until he serves for 90 days active duty. Thanks
I identify with the group that states that just because I have a Honorable Discharge, does not make me a veteran. That was reserved for those who saw combat conditions and not just a theater of operations, although the theater now can be an active combat zone at any time due to technology and terrorism methods that have changed the nature of warefare as a whole.
Thank You to all men and women who have served, especially those who gave and paid the ultimate price for the benefit of others.
Logan – I feel you are a veteran, but unfortunately not for legal benefits. I have a former Soldier that was railroaded and the result was a Dishonorable Discharge, but the conditions of his separation were ridiculous. He’s no less a veteran than anyone else, particularly because he was doing the right thing and would not compromise legal and ethical rules and morals while on active duty – the ones that are not really entitled to veteran status there are his former chain of command and the incompetent Reserve Component judge that convicted him for standing up and protecting himself and government property accountability regulations. it’s all just silly.
Hi, I discovered after 22yrs of serving in the Army Reserves (Now assigned to the Retired Reserves) that I am not considered a vereran because I did not get “Deployed” during combat. I was only “Mobilized” on several occasions Stateside. However, someone who serves I believe 2yrs on active duty with out “deployment” is a veteran. My 22yrs totals over 1500 full days of active duty service at least…explain that loophole!
Hi Rene – yes, if you have completed at least 24 months of active military duty (mobilization – not AGR work, or ADT work), then the VA considers you a veteran and you should be eligible for benefits.
However, an employer may not consider you a covered veteran for purposes of OFCCP reporting, unless you are also service disabled, recently (36 months) separated from active duty, or have been awarded an AFSM or campaign badge.
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Hi Rene – I’d be surprised if you’re not legally considered a veteran – first, the reserves is part of the Federal Army, which differentiates you from the State/Federal hang up over who you work for. Second, there is next to no legal benefit to being a veteran, except for VA benefits (Education and Health Care primarily) and some federal hiring preference. If you retired recently, I’d be surprised if you are not eligible for Post 9-11 GI Bill benefits.
For my own research in higher education, I take the liberty of defining veterans much more broadly – you wore the suit, you served, you’re a veteran. For me it has to do with joining the military culture, then rejoining the civilian culture that makes veteran status relevant.
I served a total of 6 years between the reserves and national guard, but no active duty time. Am I considered a veteran, if not why.
Tae Brantley,
Once you have honorably fulfilled a contract with the US Armed Forces you are a veteran. No matter active or reserve. You must have an Honorable Discharge. Should you continue to serve, then you will be a Veteran when your time is finished. Had you served in any wars, then you would be a “combat vet of operation whatever”….too easy
My question is similar to Tae’s and others. I served six years in the National Guard (no deployment) from 1983-1989. I have multiple awards and a badge for serving two weeks in Canada. I am considered disabled due to breathing and other issues. I apologize for babbling but am I considered a Veteran for HUD Housing, this is very important to me as my current residence is being sold. Thank you much!
My question is the following; my husband is a 20 year veteran, my son combat. BUT, what I am interested in is the legal definition of a vet–if someone running for public office puts out they are a veteran BUT have only served less than a year and left because of difficulty following orders-is this person still a veteran?