When I speak to employers on developing military recruiting programs, a veteran’s level of education is an area that generates a lot of discussion. I hear time and again “where can I find the ones who have a degree?” or “we are looking for officers, because we hear they are the ones who have degrees”.
Granted, a majority of officers come through a college commissioning program, like the Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) or a service academy. So, yes, they have a degree and a commission. But officers only make up about 30% of the total military; the other 70% are enlisted members, whose level of education completed varies. Some are high school graduates and others have master’s degrees, and everything in between. Generally, the longer someone serves in the military, the greater the chance they have completed or are very close to completing a 4 year degree.
Still, some employers are not impressed. “All of our positions require at least a bachelor’s”. Hiring managers believe that they gain something extra in terms of talent and potential by hiring someone who has completed a 4-year degree.
There was an article in US News & World Report a few years ago that highlighted this trend of employers requiring a 4 year degree as a minimum qualification for jobs. The author discovered that the young woman who helped him check out his rental car had a bachelor’s degree. He thought to himself “What is inherent about inspecting a vehicle for damage, completing some paperwork, and confirming mileage that requires 4 years of advanced education? Nothing.” Curious, he contacted the company’s HR department and learned that, other than an exception for military experience, all people hired into this position had to have a minimum of a bachelor’s.
In fairness, there are jobs that actually do require a degree, such as doctors, lawyers, nurses, Certified Public Accountants, engineers, and most teaching positions. In those cases, the degree is a requirement to be licensed or certified to practice. But what about the OTHER jobs?
The reality is, in a tight labor market, employers can be choosier when deciding what the minimum criteria are for a given position. The irony is, despite efforts to be more diversified, many companies still insist on a degree for most positions, which automatically winnows the pool to the approximately 26% of the US population has at least a 4 year degree. A population that, by and large, had the financial means to obtain a degree, and a support system that prepared them to meet college acceptance criteria and to complete the program of education. In other words: a population that is not as diversified as it could be.
I continue to push employers to consider military experience as at least equal to a 4 year degree. I’ve collected their responses to the question: “Why do your positions require a minimum of a bachelor’s degree?” The top reasons given are listed below, and I have provided my counter-argument as to why military experience is indicative of the same qualities sought by employers:
| What employers say a bachelor’s degree demonstrates | What Lisa (and every other veteran) says military experience demonstrates |
| Knowledge– completing a degree indicates that you have demonstrated basic understanding of an area of study.A person may have 8-16 weeks of actual experience in that area of study if they had internships. | Experience – completing an enlistment means that you have spent between 2-12 concentrated months learning how to perform a particular occupation (law enforcement, supply chain, human resources, etc.) and that you have performed it well enough for the 2-3 years that followed the training to maintain employment.If the person performed that job particularly well there would be evidence of promotions and awards. |
| Perseverance– Committing to a goal and succeeding.College is hard. No one is there to make you get up in the morning and go to class and to nag you to do your homework and turn in your assignments on time. Ideally, a student will knuckle down and complete the degree in 4 years. | Perseverance- Committing to a goal and succeeding.Basic training (“boot camp”) is hard. Drill sergeants are in your face every second of every day breaking you down in order to build you back up. For those that survive boot camp, actual military service runs them ragged, with training, exercises, deployments and long hours.Joining the military is voluntary, and by enlisting a person signs a contract. Come hell or high water, most people who join complete their contract because it is their personal goal to serve their country honorably in whatever capacity they can. Choosing to serve in the military is choosing a tough lifestyle, and these volunteers could have made other, perhaps easier, choices. |
| Analytical skills – many hours are spent in class reading materials and discussing the meaning and the implication of what was read and how it applies to other situations. When their analysis is correct students get an “A” and when they are incorrect they get an “C” or worse. | Analytical skills – many hours are spent on deployments in chaotic situations, gathering information, comparing data, discussing the meaning and implications of what has been gathered and how it could impact other situations. When their analysis is correct military members achieve their goals and when they are incorrect people could die. |
| Communication skills – course work requires that you write papers explaining your understanding of the material and making well thought out arguments for or against a position. College work also requires that you present information to an audience (classmates, teacher) either orally or through a presentation. | Communication skills – Staff work in the military requires that you write papers explaining your understanding of complex real-life situations and making well thought out arguments for a course of action. Staff work also involves writing policy papers and synthesizing complex subject matter into charts, graphs or presentations to be briefed to senior leaders.Even the most junior enlisted member has been asked at least once to orally brief a senior leader. Many of them do it as a matter of routine, given the number of inspections and command visits a unit receives. |
| An ability to manage time and to multitask – taking 4 to 6 classes a semester, juggling assignments and exams, and keeping up with fraternity events or sport teams means you have to be very cognizant of where you need to be on a given day and what you need to have completed in order to be successful | An ability to manage time and to multitask – in addition to doing the requirements of your job in the military, there is no shortage of administrative tasks, “no notice” taskings, and things that just don’t go the way they were planned to contend with on a daily basis. The military runs on a “no excuses” mentality, so service members are expected to deal with the situation as presented, figure out how to adapt to and/or overcome road blocks, and achieve the goal. |
So, when you break it down like that, can you see how 3-6 years of military experience provides much if not all of the true value (as expressed by the employers themselves) of a 4 year degree?
A final word on online degrees: While serving in the military, many military members pursue online education, as this allows them to take classes and work toward a degree while on deployment or while juggling multiple exercises and other work commitments. So, check your personal bias against degrees from online universities, as those educational options are often the only ones available for military members to pursue while still serving. I think it says a lot about a veteran’s perseverance to choose to take classes on top of all their other commitments while serving.
Great article.
I will note first that I have worked as a Veterans Employment Rep.mfor the last 23 yrs. I am a veterans of the U.S. Air Force, six years on active duty. I would like to add my two cents to your blog. It should be noted that while on a deployment to a war zone or support role, there is no time to work on a degree or certificate program. There are other more important matters to take care of. You can not expect an active duty person to have time for study, homework, testing….. on line while they have just got in after a fire fight and need to be ready for another mission the following day. Time off can be non-existent for many reasons. Another fact is while on active duty one must get permission from his/her command to attend an off-site college. One last thing, even to take an online course while stateside can be a no-go due to training which may put a person in the field for three week maybe more. Employers should recognize the military training and education as it is often time better. An issue we struggle with is the licensing trades (electricians, plumbers,……). There is no difference with the electricity used between military and civilians. The big difference is the veteran may have to work under extreme stress while performing their duties in a combat zone. They get the work done without complaint, only pride in knowing they can do what most cannot. Even our infantry learn highly complex weapon system and must deploy them in the field. Serious, often life threatening decisions, are be made on a moments notice by 19-20 year olds.
I agree that a better effort must be made to educate professional societies that offer certifications on the training veterans are provided and the work they conduct.
There is just as much if not more “hurry up and wait” time in the military as anywhere; trust me. I was active duty, married to military (very restricted on freedom because you have to consider BOTH active duty requirements…there’s not a spouse waiting at home), raising children, delivering pizza on base part time job in addition to my 12 hour shift…because you can’t pay for child care on an E-4 salary. And I got a 4 year degree, shortly after I finished my 2 year degree. Because I didn’t want to be a homeless veteran. That’s effective risk management.
Of course it’s difficult; that’s why you’re rewarded for doing it.
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it must have been nice having a job in the military that would allow you the time and predictable schedule for a college education. Not even one works with a predicable schedule. In my squadron I could be sent out as an individual, not as a unit. So while I can get TA, or use my GI bill, I can be sent off for a month or two with days notice, maybe less in some cases. Then because of my transit time and possibly no internet access for days I can fail a class and end up owing either the Navy, or the VA tuition money. And they will not accept any excuses. Its happened to me.
Hi Marshall – no doubt that the military is even more hectic today than it was when I was on active duty (1989-1999). It does take patience and perseverence to work toward a degree while serving. In my case, it took 5 years to complete a 2 year masters degree program due to deployments, long exercises, mandatory military education requirements and occasional lack of available Tuition Assistance (TA) $$. However, one thing that is available today that was not available when I was working on the degree is online classes (The Internet was not as easily available to the masses back in the early and mid 1990′s).
While traditional colleges are slowly coming online and making more classes available via the Internet, there are the colleges/universities that have always been military friendly, including University of Central Texas, UMUC, and others. I have found them to be tremendously flexible and knowledgable of the types of schedules we keep, and easier to work with when “stuff happens”.
I would like to agree with only one part of your response, no wait, never mind, I would like to disagree with all of it. Firstly, I’m active duty Air Force and about to go on my 5th deployment (in 9 years of being in) and in May I will graduate with a B.S. in Management Studies from UMUC. Before you assume that I have an office job, let me tell you that I’m in CE and an electrician, one of the busiest jobs downrange next to HVAC. Secondly, I’m also a state licensed electrician having been trained on the outside by the IBEW-JATC. To the point that you had about electricity being the same in the military as on the outside, you are right, but the training is a lot different! What took me 4 years of an apprenticeship to learn only took 6 months in the military. So much was never taught in tech school that I felt embarrassed for the others in the class. Military electricians are not electricians; the only thing that they are qualified for when they leave the service is that of a maintenance worker, and nothing else. Most training programs only give 2 years of credit (of which they have to take a test on to see if they’ll even place that high) for military service. The military just doesn’t teach to the same level as the outside counterparts do. What it all boils down to is time management. While having a wife and son, WAPS testing (I’m a TSgt by the way), school, volunteering, working out (since the 3 times a week isn’t enough to stay in) and having Airmen to write on is a lot to keep up with for any person, it all can be balanced with proper time management. So I say, instead of competing between military experience and civilian degrees, how about get both? Just a thought, and like I tell my Airmen, “We have the same amount of hours in the day as Thomas Jefferson, Da Vinci and Einstein, and look at all that they did.”
I disagree with your commentary in assuming a blanket statement relating to your specific experience covers an all encompassing answer. I myself served under the 3 MAW of the United States Marine Corps, I worked for VMFAT 101 where we had to uphold an average of 42 sortie missions a day and perform all of the maintenance at night. Here is my problem with your comment, i.e. “Its all about time management” and the ethical lines it crosses. The Marine Corps operates on the least budget allocation of all the branches, which means they operate on lean man power as well. If someone is taking time off of work to go to school that means your brethren are picking up your work load. We generally ran on 13 hr shifts and if we had P.T. 14hrs. Bottom line; I signed up to serve my country, and my country gave me the best and most high of a technical education one could receive in a compressed schedule. Yet, my education is not held to the same level of competence. I went through three military schools while in service and it was mandatory that we complete study time on the aircraft and systems we worked on. Hands down an A&P nor a college grad with zero experience can compare to the end result. Yet “we veterans”, i.e. those that upheld the constitution of Freedom are being stonewalled from employment opportunities where we can add value. And those veterans with college degrees should gain a little back bone and take pride in siding with the ones that were willing to take on the work load while they went class. Stop with the chickenshit commentary and stop siding with the non-sensical policies that govern and eliminate talented experience gained in the veteran community. I personally have had enough with the over educated non-experienced people. This is what hurts our country, and in the aerospace industry will get people killed.
My experiences allowed me to work under the title od design engineer on the JSF program. I dont have a degree, but one day a guy asked me to stop saying I was an engineer, I asked why, and he said “you dont have a degree. I said okay smart ass; where did the first engineer ever earn his degree? My point is we need to be a little more open minded and recognize true education, skill, and talent. That is the mind set that will kill innovation and ability to think for our selves. And the Vets that were fortunate to get the degree, stand with those that wore the cloth. No is the time to make up for the work load you took advantage of while in the service.
I have found the best way to help employers forgo their requirements is to give them the experience of hiring an ex-military/veteran.
Once they experience the benefits of having a motivated professional on thier team that out-performs yet leads their peers and serves with dedication, they no longer need to require they have a degree.
Consider it like a branding question – how do you get Starbucks people to switch? You provide them a sample of something better and allow them to experience why it’s better. They automatically choose to change their buying behavior. Remember, the competition to Starbucks is not Maxwell House, it’s 5 hour energy.
I could hope employers would read this. I got out in 2006 and my veteran status got me interviews but when asked what military occupation was I could see their interest in me fade. I suppose a infantry fire team and later a squad leader is just not what employers are looking for, it was hard knowing the value I could bring to a work place but trying to convince potential employers that one I’m not stupid just cause I’m a grunt and two I’m not a killer.
My own question is how can we best quantify the comparison to show recently separated veterans as equal or better when compared to a recent college grad in a non-career related degree (just as many military occupational specialties do not translate directly into an equivalent civilian field- neither do many bachelors degrees)?
This discussion often seems to veer into intangibles, often time’s dependent on the hiring manager having some knowledge of the military and some respect for what it takes to be a member and yet I don’t think those are the people whose perceptions we’d hope to change. Essentially, Civilians do not hold an Honorable discharge certificate in the same esteem as a bachelor’s degree diploma- and they most certainly cannot be expected to understand and determine applicability from a DD214 (or similar document).
Being as we’re discussing private sector in general, the necessary data for a full statistical analysis of a “success rate” for veteran’s versus non-veteran’s is most likely unobtainable, – maybe the best route would be the income/success rates of non-bachelor degree workers with veterans status, and compare them to the population of non-degree/no-veteran, to display that we have a population of inviduals with unique skills and work ethic that on average should be acknowledged when hiring decisions are made.
I think ultimately the reality is that the 22 year-old recently discharged combat veteran with no college degree is currently treated in this tight employment market on par with an 18 year-old high school graduate, and placed far lower than other applicants his/her own age. Even if they receive a position, they are often paid less than other hires for the same role due to their lack of degree.
Many civilians have come to see the Military as a means to achieve a college degree (a perception desired by and driven by the military itself) , so when the veteran lacks a degree, the employer may (fairly/unfairly) draw many assumptions about that and the likelihood of the veteran being retained by the company long term.
Essentially I think it’s a case of “don’t tell them, SHOW them”- we need tangible proof, either I the case of statistics and/or success stories.
The tangible proof is, with out the veteran, no one in this country would have a degree. How about the ethic of respect.
This is tough because I’ve spoken with fellow veterans about this very subject and I hear the frustration they suffer. Civilian hiring managers are ignorant and why would we expect them to be anything but? Those that serve in our military are in an extreme minority. It’s a near-insurmountable challenge for transitioning veterans to convey to those that might hire them the value their experiences bring to the proverbial table. Yet, it’s the veteran’s responsibility to convey that, not the hiring manager’s to pull it out.
My worry is the theme that this discussion conveys: “Veterans have exceptional skills that ‘nobody’ seems to understand; woe is the veteran’s plight!” So we must covince civillians to MAKE AN EXCEPTION to their normal policies for the lowly veteran even though veterans are a very, very small portion of the talent pool they can hire from. I’m not trying to bang away at the home team (I’ve worn a uniform for almost twenty years and have two combat tours as a combat arms guy), but I think we can continue banging away at the civilian HR field, or we can just suck it up and get the degrees and certifications they require. Does that suck? Yeah. But at least Uncle Sam gives you quite a few dollars to go get the education you need (GI Bill, TA, etc). Just sayin’.
I meet far too many of my peers who are satisfied complaining about their plight than doing anything about it. They scoff at the opportunity to take even one class in their free time and never investigate the many colleges and universities that give significant credit for MOS schooling. Now, I can already hear the responses: “I’ve been deployed for five out of the last eight years! How dare you!” Well, it doesn’t matter what I think; it only matters what those civilian hiring managers think. We can complain about it or do something about it.
Another thing: not many veterans recognize that if they serve in the military for ten years WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE, they are receiving pay and benefits (to include those that will pay for a degree and/or certifications and/or vocational training) that are far greater than a large majority of civilians without college degrees are receiving. 19 year old out of basic training gets a salaried position with 30 days paid vacation, GI Bill, TSP, cheap health insurance for them and their family, TSP (which most don’t invest in), room for advancement, management opportunities…that’s more than most college grads get for many years after graduating.
We all make choices; to serve or not to serve; to go to school in our free time or not to go to school in our free time; to be an infantryman or a logistics specialist; a CAV scout or a PAC Clerk. We chose to serve. That choice comes with benefits and consequences. We can play the victim and wring our hands or we can adapt and overcome.
Civilian hiring managers are under no obligation to bend their rules for us. Yeah, that sucks, but complaining about it isn’t gonna change that fact on a large scale. You can call me names, dispute my remarks, but that’s not gonna change employers. THEY DON’T HAVE TO! They have more than enough people to choose from. It’s easier for you to change (use your benefits to get a degree/certification/training) than to campaign for the bulk of employers to change to suit your needs.
Good luck my fellow veterans. With that in mind, I wholeheartedly support the efforts of people like Lisa Rosser and veterans organizations to educate employers on the Value of a Veteran.
Great article. I’m 28, a Marine infantry veteran, and heading into the last year of my bachelors, thanks to the Post-9/11 GI Bill. I’m also very involved in veteran transition issues. While I agree that informing hiring managers about the value of our unique and rare experiences is both needed and in our interests, I’d argue that it’s only one component of an issue which has several fronts, each of which is important for new veterans trying to enter the workforce.
We Need Degrees:
Despite all of our experiences (which vary widely depending on branch, occupational field, etc) our society and thus, many employers, place value on a bachelors degree for all the reasons already stated in this article. While we can debate the true value of those degrees, it’s unlikely to change the reality that failing to possess an undergraduate degree all but excises a large portion of potential jobs from the pool.
We Need Networks:
Good universities provide a solid education, but they also help provide a solid network. Many schools have entire departments devoted to developing campus recruiting and linking up good students with alumni. Beyond the classroom, organizations like American Corporate Partners help vets build contacts with professionals in their field of interest, under the presumption that those who haven’t served have a significant head start in doing so. As more jobs are filled through effective networking than through blind application, it stands to reason that vets should build and use networks if they hope to enjoy the same success rate as those who haven’t served.
We Need to Communicate Effectively:
While we wait for employers to understand our value, we can work on better understanding ourselves. Beyond general resume wisdom (few HR people know what your NAM with a gold star is), I think we need to ensure we’re speaking a language others understand. Programs like Edge for Vets (Fordham University) help by making vets articulate and understand the strengths they developed in the military and how they apply to school and work, then introducing them to business leaders who provide feedback and serve as contacts.
“Held responsibility for $2 million of distributed equipment.. designed and delivered training in technical procedures to over 40 Marines, resulting in…” – these statements probably apply to the average 22 year old infantry Corporal. Is the Corporal saying these statements?
Like RN said, we’re fortunate that we’re now provided with the financial resources to attend virtually any school we can get accepted to – many of the best universities in the country participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program. While I know many vets in college, I know many more who elect not to go, or choose to go to the easiest/fastest school they can find. In an age where the government literally pays you to go to college, I fail to understand those decisions.
As an aside, I’m wary of generalizing veterans – there are such things as bad Marines and un-sat soldiers, just as there are stellar Marines and exemplary soldiers. Propagating the idea that employers should expect the same level of leadership and excellence from every vet they encounter doesn’t faithfully portray the variance which exists in the military experience, and could eventually backfire.
Daniel, I think you’ve explained it the best…of the vets and non-vets I’ve helped write resumes, everyone has the same problem with distinguishing themselves on paper by applicably translating their experience and knowledge. And with that having been said, most military vets are speaking another language entirely and don’t have any idea what the problem is.
Reblogged this on iEmploy.
Having recently retired from the Army after 20 years in combat arms, one would think that I, as well as any other infantry, artillery, or tanker are lacking in the skills that many businesses require. As I look through job postings I see that many are looking for candidates with “organizational skills”, “ability to multi task” and can “handle a high stress environment”. Team building and management experience are a plus; however, the first thing most often stated as a qualifier is that 4 year degree. As enlisted Soldiers progress through the ranks, we often take on the extra responsibilities so that the officer we work side by side with can have time to do what he or she needs to do without stressing over the menial tasks such as issues that arise from our subordinates. If counted it as a failure on my part if my officer was still at work after 4 pm (that’s 1600 for you military types) working on soldier issues.
Bottom line is that we, as senior enlisted non-commissioned officers have several years of experience of team building, and managing personnel, often with outstanding results. I for one always worked best when the pressure was on and handling various tasks from different levels! We may lack that piece of paper that says we learned some text book version of management, leadership or whatever the focus may be. Does spending 4 years in a class room gaining a degree provide that experience as well?
Don’t get me wrong, there are things that need to be learned in the classroom, which is why I have been working on mine that past few years and am almost done. I would like to think that juggling a full time career in the military AND having that degree will give me that extra consideration for that new career. Perhaps then, I can show whomever my employer may be what a person with military experience can bring to the table.
The bottom line to employers is, “what skills does this applicant have?” If those skills were acquired through a formal college education, or through military training should be of little importance. That being the case, when comparing two candidates who have comparable skills, it is the “soft skills” that will distinguish the successful job seeker from the also-rans. Those soft skills are the ones where military vets will often exceed and include communications (upward to management, and downward to subordinates), leadership skills, decision-making ability, commitment to goals, etc., etc,. etc.
Agreed
I am a retired military vet (Navy E7) with two Masters Degrees from a traditional state university. After being unemployed for over 10months during the transition, I finally ended working for a company that pays me little over $15/hour (with 3 months of probation period which means zero benefits for the first 3 months.). I have submitted my resume to over 700 places and they don’t seem to value my military experience nor my education.
Have you looked into working for Sprint? We value military service and education.
Hi Tom,
You sound way over qualified to be working in a $15/hour job. If I were you I would reach out to all those contacts you made while you were in the military and start talking to them. Jobs are not found by posting resumes on the internet, they are found through contacts and inside connections. I bet you have those connections. You have about a year after you get out to call the first job a “mistake” and move to another job/industry. I would also take a look at your resume and make sure it is civilian friendly. Good luck.
All interesting comments. I am by far the person to quantify why employers think a college degree hold more value, however I can offer my opinion and state that I think college is not all its cracked up to be. I have done a tour of recruiting and while working with several high school students it was evident that they were all expected in some way to pursue an education/college upon graduation. Here I noted a social expectation that if you did not at least attempt to go to college after graduation, then you were considered a failure and doomed to join the military. I have been in the military for 23 years now, and I know that all those officers with college degrees irrelevant areas still lean heavily on the experience of the enlisted force not only for their own training but also to actually go out there and get the job done. So employers that default to the officer ranks simply because they have a degree may be a little naive when it comes to actually understanding the talents and capabilities of the enlisted forces.
I am a Marine Veteran and My husband and I will be unemployed in August, with the push to hire veterans we mostly find companies who want to hire veterans for positions with no higher education. I would like to know what corporations you spke to that are looking for veterans with degree. We both have degrees and I am half way finished with a Masters…..
I was in the Navy for 10 years as a Naval Aviator. When I transitioned out of the Navy the economy was in a downturn and jobs were not overly abundant. I worked with JMO recruiters and put out a lot of resumes on my own.
While I agree with a lot of points in the above article it is guilty of doing exactly what it is arguing against; that would be undervaluing experience and/or education. My Bachelors degree, MBA, and multiple professional certificates is different from my experience in the Navy. Anyone who has taken a government accounting course and then expects their four years doing “military” accounting to be the same as an accounting graduate is sadly mistaken.
One mistake I think that most people transitioning out of the military make is not translating their resume. There are plenty of examples on how to make the translations and a lot of military friendly recruiters will help make the translation. The other issue is the expectations that transitioning members have. Right now the military pays well compared to a lot private sector jobs. After 10 in the Navy with no business experience I thought I was worth the same on the outside as I was still in the Navy. This assumption can be/is unreasonable. However, after 3 years I am now making more than I did in the Navy. I whole-heartedly believe this is due to my experience in the Navy teaching me how to work hard and be adaptable combined with my education.
My point in all this is to look at the skills you have and set reasonable expectations. Transitioning military members without a degree may not have the same qualifications as new graduates with bachelor degrees. Take the opportunities the military and VA give you and get a degree. Like it or not that is what employers are looking for in a prospective candidate. My other piece of advice is to think long term. The pay may not be there on day one but in the right position all of that will come.
Good luck!
I am a Navy veteran of over 25 years enlisted service. It is my opinion that the non-military sector has little if any understanding of the military. As has been stated, military members work arduous hours in hostile work environments, with some of the most sophisticated technology. And they do this voluntarily, sometimes thousands of miles away from their family and friends, in austere, even spartan conditions. I think I can say we only want to be treated as equals. That doesn’t happen, even though we are required to have our own degrees (not just the officers). Our training can be broken down into civilian equivalencies, apprenticeships, even journeyman and master tradespersons. Until the prejudices are put aside, and we are seen for our accomplishments, we will continue to be treated as inferiors. My daily routine as a military member put me in charge of (and held accountable for) multimillion dollar inventories and systems. When you hire me, you hire one of the most technologically trained, proactive leaders in the country. How does that rate compared to someone that might have a 6 month internship, or just a diploma? Apparently, nothing. And they say it is an EQUAL opportunity? It is a good thing I am going back to college to earn my third Bachelor’s, to add to my AAS in Graphic Design and Multimedia. Maybe now, I will be seen as equally educated. This is just my own opinion… does it ring true?
Third Bachelors? You have given me hope also. I thought I had failed by having to go back to college for my second bachelors. I only graduated three years ago did a number of things and now return to add a degree in computer science to a degree in Multimedia.
Yeah I completely agree with you there is nothing that I have done as a civilian that is harder than deploying yet employers don’t consider military experience at all when hiring. They would rather hire a 21 year old with a bachelors who has never worked a day in their life, than a veteran who is used to working 80+ hours a week with no days off in Afghanistan. Yet most employers think that a bachelors degree displays more work ethic than military experience.
This just made me feel alot more hopeful.
In addition to all the reasons mentioned above, and I admit I didn’t read them all. There is a perception in the business world, that all veterans are former drill sergeants and cannot adapt to the civilian lifestyle. I have been asked during interviews, “How do you separate or apply your military background to the civilian world?” My answer always revolves around training, and how the military is one of the most lean organizations in the world.
There are serious employers who are actively reaching out to Veterans. Some of the large corporations also have internal military networks that serve as employee resource groups. Citi, MetLife, Prudential and others are making great progress in adding Veterans to their workforce.
This was a refreshing post to come across. In the previous couple of months, I’ve been feeling the pain of this in my own life. In addition to over 10 years of experience as a military print journalist, editor and photographer, I also have years of experience in professional roles under five major corporations (working as a finance assistant and in the realm of newspaper marketing and trade show marketing, as well in the Pentagon as a media analyst). And yet the demonstration of that knowledge for about a third of my life is not enough for most employers. I’m currently in the Washington, DC, area, and no matter how solid my references and credentials, and how many times I hear, “What a unique skill set,” the degree question comes up, and all bets are off. Thank you for highlighting what I believe to be true, that military service can be more valuable, or just as valuable, as paying for a load of courses, many of which I find to be irrelevant to our chosen career fields and often seem to be mandated for the purposes of fattening the pockets of institutions. I’d love to see an educational system more personalized to the student’s interests and specific career needs. An overhaul is dearly needed in our country.
I couldn’t concur more with the above comments. I do appreciate those few companies who have made sincere efforts in support of our veterans. However, what I’m reading herein is that the majority of the efforts are simply window dressing, or poorly executed, or just aren’t sincere…
On the opposite side of this argument – I’m a highly educated former officer with Pentagon experience. Now, let me tell you about my experience and what I found in Atlanta, Georgia on the professional side. I initially interviewed with a major “Cola,” company and when discussing position in branding I was simply told – “Oh you didn’t go to Wharton or to Emory,” we don’t hire from anywhere else. I guess working working the “Army Strong,” campaign and branding for both the Army and Army Reserve mattered little…I then, for about two weeks went to work for a firm in “Buckhead,” and found myself at a 6th grader’s desk and in a zero veterans environment working with many young folks who had NO respect for military service – needless to say I left that job. I then interviewed later on with a major “Trade Show Manufacturer” – something I had experience with in the Army(Trade Show Management). One of owners really saw the potential – the other was absolutely clueless on what a military officer brings to the table…I’m sure the same rings true for senior enlisted as well.
Interesting though is that of the 250 or more job applications I’ve carefully dropped this summer – most in Atlanta – I’ve received only three interviews. Now, outside Atlanta I’ve applied for a dozen or so jobs in various cities to include Columbus Ohio, D.C., and Orlando. At least every other resume I drop in those cities gets a hit – phone call, email inquiry or follow-up interview. I’ve got a pending six figure offer in one of those cities as well.
My thought is Atlanta just isn’t there yet…it’s got kind of an isolated work culture that is used to hiring out of a few elite or local Universities and it’s a bit of a “Bubba Culture.” My advice to you is that if you do find employment there – try and work for one of a few military friendly employers in the city such as Home Depot or UPS, and be particularly “ruthless,” in pursuit of your goals….you will find a number of people who just don’t get it…Atlanta requires much work…they think we are all “drill sergeants,” or worse yet, “just shooters.”
Unplugging for a while…beach bound!
So, I would recommend for current veterans, why not try to get an online degree while serving in the military. I know its very difficult because of all the other responsibilities, but at least that way you can come out with valuable military experience & a bachelor’s degree. The only con I can see to that would be maybe employers don’t take online bachelor’s degrees professionally? I don’t know, I suppose that varies.
If you’re going to do ONLINE, it must from community college, state college, and grad school. Don’t U of Phoenix…waste of your money because it’s not fully accredited.
Hi Brutus – University of Phoenix is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission and is a member of the North Central Association. For a list of all institutions accredited through the HLC go to http://www.ncahlc.org/Directory-of-HLC-Institutions.html
I think it’s awesome that you are sticking up for Veterans. I think the hiring process in the civilian sector caters towards 21 year olds with a Bachelors degree. I just completed my bachelor’s degree, I have been deployed 3 times, and I have 7 years of active duty military experience. I thought it would be easy to find a job but I still haven’t been able to find a job because they just don’t care if you have military experience or not. All they care about is what you have accomplished as a civilian. So basically I waisted 7 years of my life in the military and 3 of those years in Afghanistan. Even though my 7 years in the military was 1000 times harder than completing a bachelors degree (which was a breeze), civilians are just biased towards military experience. Granted you can get a government job, but even then they care more about previous government experience than military experience. Ultimately however I am a hard worker and I’m smart, so all those companies that discriminate towards veterans are only hurting themselves because veterans are hard workers and it’s their loss. Also a Bachelors degree is a joke it’s the easiest thing I’ve ever accomplished in my life, high school was more challenging than college. Bachelors degrees shouldn’t count for anything because a two year old can make it through college now days. College is too easy and all Universities care about is getting money from their students. Completing a degree is nothing in comparison to military experience especially veterans who have deployed. If an employer thinks that getting a degree is harder than going to war, than they will never have a successful company because their companies are being ran by spoiled college kids who will never have the same maturity level and experience as veterans.
Could nt agree with you more. A note to the wise; in regards to some of these government sector contractors, the reason they want the degree is so they can justify higher charges to government programs. i.e. slow up the program suck funds dry and in the end stick it to the tax payer while they make off with billions for themselves.